Etanol.nu

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InläggPostat: tis 09-12-29 01:10 
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Back OT, this http://www.patentstorm.us/patents/76283 ... ption.html seems to be about a way of controlling the current of an inductive heater of the injector. That seems an interesting option too

/Aryan

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InläggPostat: tis 09-12-29 09:43 
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aryan skrev:
Back OT, this http://www.patentstorm.us/patents/76283 ... ption.html seems to be about a way of controlling the current of an inductive heater of the injector. That seems an interesting option too

/Aryan

The link above needs login, this does not.
http://www.patentgenius.com/patent/7628340.html

Citat ur beskrivningen.
Citat:
FIG. 9 shows the temperature 910, in .degree. C., of an appropriate injector component heated to a target temperature of 190.degree. C. and regulated there by turning Q1 `on` and `off,` under software control. The measurements were made underconditions including voltage and current levels similar to those of FIGS. 6, 7 and 8. Power from the supply voltage during the heating period is 160 watts in this example. The heating time from ambient, 25.degree. C., to 130.degree. C. is under 0.7seconds, demonstrating the speed of the new method of heating the fuel with a time-varying magnetic field.

FIG. 10 depicts the fuel spray of ethanol fuel grade E-100 without the heater driver enabled. A 2-hole split-stream orifice determines the spray shape and atomization. FIG. 11 depicts the fuel spray of ethanol fuel grade E-100 with the heaterdriver enabled and regulated to 110.degree. C. The orifice no longer determines the spray shape or atomization since the fuel is nearly vapor as it flash-boils upon leaving the fuel injector.

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InläggPostat: tis 09-12-29 19:05 
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if we just put +12 and -12 V onto the metal ending tip of the injector?

Bild

it will heat up.

and we can control the current for prevent thermal damage of injector.

it can be done for already-installed injectors without changing it by new ones.

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InläggPostat: tis 09-12-29 21:26 
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Thanks for the link GL, very infoormative! This inductive heating seem to rely on a special injector with an extra heating coil unfortunately it does not use the standard coil. I guess that means that using a normal injector coil for heating will not work otherwise the invener would have done that instead ?

Also we now know that both Delphi and this inductive heater are ca 160watt per injector, so that is a good benchmark for the amount of heat hat is needed, about as much as a glowplugs heat.

Obermot: how would you suggest to put a current through the injector tip? To mee that sounds a bit difficult? Maybe an adapter between the fuelrail and the injector that heats the fuel before entering the injector could be an alternative too if it is possible o move the fuelrail ca 2 cm out. The adapter could for example use a glowplug as its heating element ?

/Aryan

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InläggPostat: ons 09-12-30 11:53 
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we have to heat fuel after (no before) injector's dosator (or valve).

becouse if we will heat it before injector, we can give wery small energy to fuel, or it will start to boil. whne temperature outside will be below -5...-10C, energy in heated to +100C ethanol will be not enough to evaporate enough quantity of fuel for ignition.

after injector we can heat up fuel to any temperature, give to fuel any additional "heat energy" - if it will boil, it will be even better.

in Delphi's injector heater element is after injectopr's valve - and it is much better, than sollution of Bosh, where heaters are before injectors.

we can juct connect wires to metal "ending" part of injector - it wil conduct electircity and will heat up. this element contacted with fuel and will heat it up.

we can control curren, preventing thermal damage of injector from short-circuit.

Bild

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InläggPostat: ons 09-12-30 15:16 
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Obormot skrev:
after injector we can heat up fuel to any temperature, give to fuel any additional "heat energy" - if it will boil, it will be even better.

While the fuel is still pressurized, before the valve, it's boiling temperature will be higher than after the valve.

Once the ethanol has passed the valve, it will boil at regular 78°C temp. When it boils, you will not be able to heat it anymore by contact thermal transfer (which is the only feasable means to heat it).

The end result is that you still won't get better vaporization than heating the pressurised side of the injector.

I still believe in minimizing the size of the fuel-rail and pre-heating it with PTC-heaters.

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InläggPostat: ons 09-12-30 15:30 
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when fuel is boiled, we don't need to heat it anymore :)

if all fuel will be evaporated - this is ideal combustion conditions :)

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InläggPostat: ons 09-12-30 15:35 
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The boiling point of the fuel inside the fuel rail is dependent of the fuel pressure. More pressure and a higher temperature is possible, the higher pressure is also an advantage for the atomisation o the fuel and it will become vapour instantly if it is preheated too.

I think that the idea of putting current through the tip is not a very realistic idea, but who knows?

Assume that you could attach wires where you indicate them with good contact. What would be the injectors resistance, it can hardly be more than 0,001 Ohm? In that case, to make 160 watt heat you need to put 0,4V over the injector housing and the current would be 400A! So you will need strong cables ad a very good fast switching current control too.

/Aryan

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Senast redigerad av aryan ons 09-12-30 15:46, redigerad totalt 1 gång.

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but Delphi did actually heated tip.

we can apply 12 v and use wide-impulse modulation (i don't know how it in english) for controlling current and prevent short-circuit.

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High frequency pulse width modulation (PWM) but with such a low resistive load I do not think that it will work.

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InläggPostat: ons 09-12-30 16:14 
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Obormot skrev:
we have to heat fuel after (no before) injector's dosator (or valve).

becouse if we will heat it before injector, we can give wery small energy to fuel, or it will start to boil. whne temperature outside will be below -5...-10C, energy in heated to +100C ethanol will be not enough to evaporate enough quantity of fuel for ignition.

after injector we can heat up fuel to any temperature, give to fuel any additional "heat energy" - if it will boil, it will be even better.

in Delphi's injector heater element is after injectopr's valve - and it is much better, than sollution of Bosh, where heaters are before injectors.


As far as I can see all existing solutions (Delphi, Siemens, Bosch and the other patent in this threat) heat the fuel before the valve opening of the injector. The fuel is heated when still under pressure, not after as you wrote?

/Aryan

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InläggPostat: ons 09-12-30 20:14 
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aryan skrev:
Obormot skrev:
we have to heat fuel after (no before) injector's dosator (or valve).

becouse if we will heat it before injector, we can give wery small energy to fuel, or it will start to boil. whne temperature outside will be below -5...-10C, energy in heated to +100C ethanol will be not enough to evaporate enough quantity of fuel for ignition.

after injector we can heat up fuel to any temperature, give to fuel any additional "heat energy" - if it will boil, it will be even better.

in Delphi's injector heater element is after injectopr's valve - and it is much better, than sollution of Bosh, where heaters are before injectors.


As far as I can see all existing solutions (Delphi, Siemens, Bosch and the other patent in this threat) heat the fuel before the valve opening of the injector. The fuel is heated when still under pressure, not after as you wrote?

/Aryan


All solutions with integrated heater in the injector are limitied in power and temperature since they defacto are built together with the injectorvalve which cant take unlimited heat.
It means that it is impossible to heat so much more than if the heat is added to the fuel before the injector, for instance in the FR.
And it is probably good enough, luckily.
The point in heating after would be to vaporize fully but it is physically as difficult as to heat the air which we have discussed the difficulties with already..
The conclusion is the Bosch made the homework best, so far, with their Flexstart.
What they missed to add is a continous heating that can take over once the engine/ coolant is varm.

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InläggPostat: ons 09-12-30 20:42 
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I don't agree with your conclusion that Bosch did there homework best see the Delphi paper http://delphi.com/pdf/techpapers/2009-01-0615.pdf

Citat:
HEATED FUEL RAIL
This concept heated the entire fuel rail with an internal heater. A number of significant drawbacks precluded further development:
• Significant electrical energy is required to heat the entire quantity of fuel in a short amount of time
• Pre-crank warm-up times are approximately 60 seconds at -5°C
• Large radiant heat loss area
• Heated fuel rises to the top of the rail
• First injections consist of ambient temperature fuel
• Requires pre-crank PCM turn-on strategy and starter control

LOCALIZED FUEL RAIL HEATERS
These concepts position an individual diesel glow plug in the fuel rail, directly above each injector, to locally heat the fuel above each injector.
Again, these concepts suffer from a number of significant drawbacks:
• Pre-crank warm-up times are between 10 to 20 seconds at -5°C
• Heated fuel rises to the top of the rail away from the injectors
• First injections consist of ambient temperature fuel
• Requires pre-crank PCM turn-on strategy and starter control


But as a practical aftermarket solution I suggest a powerfull thermostatic heater with build-in circulation pump, that pumps heated fuel through the fuelrail, that would be almost as good but not as fast as heated injectors.

/Aryan

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InläggPostat: tor 09-12-31 15:17 
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Citat:
HEATED FUEL RAIL
This concept heated the entire fuel rail with an internal heater. A number of significant drawbacks precluded further development:
• Significant electrical energy is required to heat the entire quantity of fuel in a short amount of time

No problem, not more problem than in a diesel engine

Citat:
• Pre-crank warm-up times are approximately 60 seconds at -5°C

Can probably be improved if needed.

Citat:
• Large radiant heat loss area

Can be solved with simple insulation but probably not needed since the ultimate solution is to transfer over to a coolant heat exchanger as soon as possible

Citat:
• Heated fuel rises to the top of the rail\
• First injections consist of ambient temperature fuel
• Requires pre-crank PCM turn-on strategy and starter control


Small, not interesting problems!

Citat:
LOCALIZED FUEL RAIL HEATERS
These concepts position an individual diesel glow plug in the fuel rail, directly above each injector, to locally heat the fuel above each injector.
Again, these concepts suffer from a number of significant drawbacks:
• Pre-crank warm-up times are between 10 to 20 seconds at -5°C
• Heated fuel rises to the top of the rail away from the injectors
• First injections consist of ambient temperature fuel
• Requires pre-crank PCM turn-on strategy and starter control


Acceptable drawbacks!

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InläggPostat: ons 11-09-14 01:42 
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Vill bara påminna om denna nu inför vintern.

http://delphi.com/shared/pdf/ppd/pwrtrn ... jector.pdf

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