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 Inläggsrubrik: E85 = BTL?
InläggPostat: tor 08-05-08 13:56 
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Blev medlem: tor 08-05-08 13:44
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Servus!
I´m new on this board! My english is not realy good but i try!

One question! Is it correct that swedish E85 is BTL or is it normal alcohol?
Somebody in a german Forum says it is BTL!


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InläggPostat: tor 08-05-08 14:51 
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BTL stands for biomass to liquid.
In an way pure ethanol (E96) is this.
But normally BTL is used to visioniarise other liquid fuel, some maybe mean diesel fuels, I don't know.
Since it's 13% petrol + 2% denaturant in E85, we are still waiting for the ulitmate E96 here in Sweden.

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InläggPostat: tor 08-05-08 15:23 
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Blev medlem: tis 06-12-19 18:42
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The BTL fuels are usually made by the Fischer-Tropsch process (the same process that was used in Germany for making synthetic gasoline and diesel fuel from coal during WW II).

But ethanol cannot be made with that process.

The ethanol used in swedish fuels is produced using the traditional process of fermentation and distillation. A large part of the consumption is imported from Brazil and other countries, the rest is produced in two swedish plants: Agro Etanol in Norrköping, using mainly wheat as raw material , and Sekab in Domsjö, south of Örnsköldsvik, that plant co-exists with a paper pulp plant whose waste material is fermented and used for ethanol production.
The ethanol from Norrköping is said to be mostly used for the 5 % ethanol blend in gasoline, while the Domsjö ethanol is used in E85 and in the diesel ethanol fuel Etamax-D.

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InläggPostat: fre 08-05-09 10:26 
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Blev medlem: mån 07-01-15 13:10
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in Germany the worldwide acting companies Linde and Süd-Chemie are working together to develope, support and sell systems which allow producing BTL.
But i do not know if it is possible to produce ethanol in that way.....may be.
(text in German) http://www.linde.com/international/web/linde/like35lindede.nsf/0/0E23A9F5864A5949C125744100243A4A

on the other side of the atlanic ocean the Canadians and the US are very advanced in developing ethanol producing systems base on yeast and bacteria.

as you wrote Sekab produces ethanol from plant waste material by fermentig them, isn't that BTL?

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best wishes from here :)
Volvo V70 II on 30% E85 (just for starts) and LPG
Berti
http://www.ethanol-tanken.com
http://www.spritmonitor.de/de/detailansicht[url]/349366.html[/url]


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InläggPostat: fre 08-05-09 15:44 
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Biomass to Liquid, can that be fossile cole??

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InläggPostat: mån 08-05-12 06:58 
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Blev medlem: lör 07-12-22 12:42
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emmm.... yes. Although that would be rather old biomass. 8)

As far as I know, btl is gained using the Fischer-Tropsch-method, which was already used during wwII to provide fuel for the Wehrmacht, as Germany had a severe problem getting oil, but had masses of coal within it's own boarders.

The good thing about this method is you can make fuel out of nearly everything (as long as ist contains C 8) ), but you need a vast amount of energy to do so. Consequently this does not make any sense ecologically, at least as long as this energy is not derived from renewable sources.


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InläggPostat: mån 08-05-12 07:44 
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Blev medlem: tis 06-12-19 18:42
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There is a problem which often is encountered when trying to use non-fossile biomass for large scale Fischer-Tropsch processes, namely that it is difficult to get an enough clean synthese gas from the gasifier.

There are no such problems in laboratory or pilot plant scale gasifiers, but when sizing them up, the tar contents of the gas often get too high, and that will disturb the catalytic process or even "poison" the catalytic mass, causing unacceptably short life for it.

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InläggPostat: mån 08-05-12 08:30 
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Blev medlem: lör 07-12-22 12:42
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By the way: Does anyone know how Choren does? I have not heard anything about them recently...


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InläggPostat: mån 08-05-12 09:08 
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torbjorn skrev:
There is a problem which often is encountered when trying to use non-fossile biomass for large scale Fischer-Tropsch processes, namely that it is difficult to get an enough clean synthese gas from the gasifier.

There are no such problems in laboratory or pilot plant scale gasifiers, but when sizing them up, the tar contents of the gas often get too high, and that will disturb the catalytic process or even "poison" the catalytic mass, causing unacceptably short life for it.


OK, I see.
By the way isn't BTL meant to be dieselfuels only?
If this is so, I see why the biodiesel-industry is so silent the last year or so...

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InläggPostat: tis 08-05-13 06:42 
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aero84 skrev:
By the way: Does anyone know how Choren does? I have not heard anything about them recently...

Choren has already started the BTL production in April.
Process Portal für Chemie- und *** (German)

karlmb skrev:
By the way isn't BTL meant to be dieselfuels only?
If this is so, I see why the biodiesel-industry is so silent the last year or so...
no, not necessary. the synthesis gas mix (Co + H2) can be used to produce any kind of fuel, only selected by the used katalysator.
but in reality only Sundiesel will be produced, i guess.

For us more interesting is the (actual only theoretical) option to produce ethanol from lignocellulose, using special yeast. Normally yeast only can use glucose (a C6 sugar=Hexose) to produce ethanol. But modern science is raising yeast, which can use C5 sugars (Pentosen) too, like Xylose and Arabinose, by activating a genom which was found in yeast, but is deactivated during evolution.
But using this to produce ethanol commercially will become reality in a few years, not today.

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best wishes from here :)
Volvo V70 II on 30% E85 (just for starts) and LPG
Berti
http://www.ethanol-tanken.com
http://www.spritmonitor.de/de/detailansicht[url]/349366.html[/url]


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InläggPostat: tis 08-05-13 18:28 
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Blev medlem: ons 07-05-09 08:43
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Volvo-Berti!

Do you know any thing about the prices on the Choren products? I have been told that their whole production has been bought by Merceds and Wolksvagen (als Erstfüllung für Neue Dieselautos!), is that true?

Roger


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InläggPostat: ons 08-05-14 06:23 
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hej, i have heard that too. I really do not know anything about the prices oft their BtL, and i guess it cannot be cheap enough to compete against Diesel, because the prodauction amount is actually very small (~15.000 to/year)

they are just mounting a beta unit
http://www.choren.com/de/energy_for_all/beta-anlage/

_________________
best wishes from here :)
Volvo V70 II on 30% E85 (just for starts) and LPG
Berti
http://www.ethanol-tanken.com
http://www.spritmonitor.de/de/detailansicht[url]/349366.html[/url]


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InläggPostat: fre 08-05-16 13:19 
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Hej Volvo-Berti,

Cannot find it on Chorens homepage, but I have seen an article that the plant is now up and running (Alpha-Anlage), 28th of April or so. Bundeskanzlerin Merkel also made a visit at the Choren plant 17th of April.

Roger


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InläggPostat: lör 08-05-17 13:55 
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hej Roger,

what cannot be found by you?
the link above in my last posting works fine, it will show you pics of the construction of the beta-anlage.

the link posted earlier works, too.

_________________
best wishes from here :)
Volvo V70 II on 30% E85 (just for starts) and LPG
Berti
http://www.ethanol-tanken.com
http://www.spritmonitor.de/de/detailansicht[url]/349366.html[/url]


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InläggPostat: lör 08-05-17 17:39 
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Blev medlem: ons 07-05-09 08:43
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Volvo-Berti,

I was refering to the later article, reporting about the production is now running. The "Beta" phase is over now! I have probably seen an article that is not on Choren's homepage.

Roger


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